'Nelson Mandela should mediate in the Middle East'

Abdul Barri Atwan, 53, envisions a common state for Jews and Arabs in Palestine, just like in South Africa. He urges the Europeans to take a stronger stand against the Sharon government. Its policy of occupation, he says, provokes violence, including suicide attacks. Atwan knows what he's talking about: The founder and editor of the influential daily Al Quds Al Arabi was born in a Palestinian refugee camp in 1950.

While he is running his newspaper out of London, most of his family is still living in Gaza. His mother and his brothers and sisters just survived the recent Israeli occupation of their hometown Rafah. Atwan became internationally known when he interviewed Osama Bin Laden (before the 9/11 attacks). Dr. René Gralla and Peter Orzechowski interviewed Atwan at his London office.

As a Palestinian born in a refugee camp in Gaza and now an emigré watching your old homeland, when you see the pictures of violence in the Middle East daily what's your reaction?
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel is in a desperate situation. There have been many international initiatives in recent months to solve the conflict over Palestine.

The last proposal came from Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Maher. But Sharon doesn't like these initiatives. Instead, he provokes new violence. His army kills members of the Islamic Jihad in Gaza. Before that, his troops invaded Rafah, destroyed 50 houses and killed ten people, including children.

At the same time, he is carrying on with the construction of a huge wall between Israel and Palestine - the rest of Palestine that is, since Israel has annexed 60 per cent of the West Bank. Sharon creates the problems the region is suffering from. And what is the result? Extremists send suicide bombers to Israel, and the violence continues.

Sharon would say Israel acts purely in self-defence. Israeli raids or the building of the wall are merely an answer to Palestinian terror.

Just look at my family. My mother, my brothers and sisters, they all live in Rafah. A couple of weeks ago, an Israeli bomb missed our house by just 50 metres. I try to talk to my family on the phone as often as I can, because I am always worried about them. Israeli forces invaded the refugee camp in Rafah even though there was no act of violence in the months before. Sharon doesn't want peace, he wants to humiliate the Palestinian people.

Let's just assume you are right. Why would Sharon act the way he does? What would be his motives?
If he took part in peace negotiations, he would ultimately have to withdraw from the Occupied Territories. He even might have to discuss the return of the Palestinian refugees. Sharon doesn't want this. That's why he is running away from the peace process.

Every now and then, Sharon sounds more conciliatory. He also speaks of "painful concessions".
Painful concessions? He is playing with words. Less than 24 hours after Maher's visit, Sharon sent his tanks to Rafah, which is right next to the Egyptian border, thereby signaling to Cairo: We don't care about your peace initiatives.

German foreign minister Joschka Fischer recently warned against the escalating violence. Is such a warning helpful?
The Europeans follow a policy of appeasement. This encourages Sharon to continue with his policy - which is instigating instability in the Middle East. This, in turn, encourages extremist organisations like Al Qaida. But Europe is geographically very close to the Middle East. It should worry about its safety and stability.

Frankly, either Europe stops the Sharon government or it will face the consequences - more terrorism, more refugees. That's why the Europeans have to tell Israel that enough is enough. We have the roadmap to peace. The Palestinians have accepted it. Israel must follow suit.

Europe, especially Germany with its murder of six million Jews in World War II, has special, historical relations with Israel...
Everyone must raise their voice against inhumane acts. Since the start of the Intifada, 3,600 Palestinians have been killed, nearly 50,000 wounded, out of which 10,000 have been crippled for life.

The US claims to plan a peace settlement for all of the Middle East. The invasion of Iraq and the capture of Saddam was - according to the Bush administration - one step into this direction.

The Americans might have solved one problem, but they have thereby created ten new ones. Look at Iraq today. The presence of the US troops provokes terrorism there. Extremists from all over the world are gathering there to fight the occupation forces. And Al Qaida has a new stronghold: Iraq.

If you add to this the situation in Afghanistan, you almost get the impression that Osama Bin Laden and not George Bush is the winner.
I believe one of Osama's biggest dreams has become true. He once said to me that it would be a enormous success for him if he could lure the US into Arab territory. Well, he has succeeded. Now, US troops are fighting in the Middle East. They will get stuck there. In the end, it will be more disastrous for them than Vietnam.

You are one of the few journalists who met Osama Bin Laden and interviewed him. Do you think he is still alive? And if so, is he still dangerous, considering that he is reported to suffer from kidney problems?
I assume he is still alive and well. The so-called kidney problems are just one of the many stories about him that have been fabricated. He was wounded during the battle of Tora Bora. But afterwards, he underwent surgery and a splinter of a grenade was removed from his left shoulder.

Despite Saddam having been captured, there are still attacks on US forces in Iraq - in fact their numbers are growing.
The capture of Saddam was a blessing for the Iraqi people and the whole region. But the resistance against the occupation will now grow even stronger. Before, the guerillas were suspected to be associated to Saddam. That's over now. More men will join the guerillas because their homeland is being occupied.

How should a peace plan for the Middle East look like?
I dream of a solution like the one in South Africa. We live in a multi-cultural world. The US has become a superpower being a multi-cultural society. Europe is changing into a multi-ethnic and multi-religious continent.

Why should Israel be allowed to go back to a state that existed 4,000 years ago - for Jews only? Why can't all people live together peacefully in Palestine? South Africa should be the model for Palestine - one man, one vote. Palestine is a very small territory. We can't split it up. Let's share it, instead, equally.

So your vision is a common Jewish-Arab state?
Clearly, yes.

Is this a realistic vision after all the bloodshed?
Surely. There had been lot of bloodshed in South Africa as well. Germany and France have fought each other in bloody wars, and now both nations live as friends within the EU.

Since you see South Africa as an example, shouldn't Nelson Mandela try to bring the two warring parties together?
I hope with all my