Lucknow: Vinay Katiyar, the founder of radical Hindu outfit Bajrang Dal, played a key role in the events leading to the demolition of the Babri mosque in Ayodhya in December, 1992.
Riding the popularity of the Ram temple movement, Katiyar was elected to the Indian Parliament three times — in 1991, 1996 and 1999 — from Ayodhya.
Today, 18 years after the mosque’s demolition, Katiyar is a member of the Parliament’s upper house, nominated by the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP). Katiyar’s political career, perhaps, is an indicator of the dwindling popularity of the Ram temple movement that catapulted the BJP from the two seats it held in Parliament in 1984, to 85 in 1989. At the same time, his career graph is an indicator of Indian politicians’ ability to ruthlessly exploit religious sentiments of the masses.
Today, he is the BJP vice-president and, along with 25 others, stands accused of demolishing the mosque.
Days before a high court is expected to deliver its verdict on the Babri mosque-Ram temple dispute, Katiyar has asked the Federal Government to seek a delay in the judgment.
In an interview with Gulf News at his House, where he is guarded by a contingent of 54 security personnel, Katiyar spoke at length about this dispute. Excerpts:
Gulf News: Why do you think there was a temple where the Babri mosque was built in 1528? What evidence is there?
Katiyar: The Ram temple was destroyed by Babur’s lieutenant Mir Baqi in 1528. There is a dispute whether Babur himself visited Ayodhya but Mir Baqi lived and died in Ayodhya. In fact some believe that Mir Baqi was buried in the same disputed complex. But others say he was buried in a village close to Ayodhya and his grave stone says “We are building this (mosque) for the angels”. Secondly, Ayodhya is a temple town (there are 6,000 temples in the city). But the main temple is devoted to Ram and until 1980 the Hindus have fought 78 battles to defend the temple. Around 300,000 Hindus have died between 1528 and 1980 in battles to defend the temple. The Muslims of Ayodhya are in favour of the temple and Hindus have been worshipping ... Ram in that structure. Muslim traders also benefit from the temples as they sell goods used by Hindu worshippers. So there is no dispute in Ayodhya. In 1984 when I walked from Lucknow to Ayodhya demanding a Ram temple, Muslims erected welcome gates in Ayodhya and supported my demand. There are three mosques located close to the disputed site and Hindus have never opposed a mosque in that area. There is ample evidence supporting the existence of a Ram temple where Babri mosque was located. Historians, government gazettes of pre- and post-independent India, and a daughter of Mughal emperor Aurangzeb, have extensively written that the Ram temple was demolished before building the mosque. Several Muslim historians also support our view. A Ram temple would have been constructed long time ago if this issue was not politicised.
Till 1959, no Hindu organisation claimed that the spot where Babri mosque once stood was the birthplace of Ram. Your comment.
This is not true. As I said before Hindus have fought 78 battles since 1528.
According to Muslims, Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) excavations failed to establish that there was a temple.
The ASI excavation report is public document. A total of 84 pillars with statues of Hindu deities were excavated from the spot. All this indicates presence of a temple.
Papers submitted by Hindus in court as evidence in 1885 and later in 1941 claimed two different locations as Ram’s birthplace. Also in 1864, the then British director general of the ASI identified a third temple as Ram’s birthplace.
This is wrong information. Even British officers have submitted in courts that a temple was demolished. Secondly, Babur was an invader and was not an Indian Muslim. He lived and died in Agra. He was buried there before his remains were taken to Samarkand in Afghanistan where he was denied a burial. Then why do we (Indians) allow a structure (Babri mosque) in his memory? We ask the Muslims to show evidence of ownership of the land where the mosque was built.
But a Hindu organisation Nirmohi Akhara did claim that their property in Ayodhya was Ram’s birthplace.
You are right. But Nirmohi Akhara is not the sole representative of the Hindu community. The dispute filed by Nirmohi Akhara was about a 60-by-40 square feet of land. But we don’t believe that Ram’s birthplace was confined to this tiny plot of land. Muslim invaders destroyed a large number of temples in India and we are asking for the restoration of only three temples: Ayodhya, Mathura and Kashi.
What is the objective of your party and other Hindu organisations?
We want a Ram temple at that spot.
Is there a possibility of an out-of-court settlement?
Off course there is. At one point of time both Muslims and Hindus agreed to settle this dispute but I can’t disclose the details. Even today, Muslims are willing to settle this but they have certain demands.
You say that you have strong evidence for a temple. Will then Hindu organisations accept a court verdict?
In our country, court is the supreme authority and we are ready to accept the court verdict. But can you accept a court verdict that goes against the faith of the community? Whoever loses in this case will go to the Supreme Court. And even after the Supreme Court, the aggrieved community will look to Parliament to enact a law. So we want an amicable settlement outside the court. I launched the Ram temple movement in 1984 and today I ask for a peaceful settlement.
Muslim organisations say that they will not give up claim over the site because this will create a precedent. Hindus, who claim around 33,000 mosques were built after demolishing temples, will then ask for restoration of all these temples.
If Muslims don’t give up their claim on the Babri mosque site, Hindus will continue to stake claim over other mosques. But if this land is handed over to us I think the Hindu community will not raise the issue of other mosques. They should not raise it. The Hindus would not have launched the temple movement if Babri mosque was not built at Ram’s birth place. We are not against the mosques.
But who will give this undertaking to the Muslims?
You are talking to the person who launched the temple movement. I say to Muslims: ‘You hand over the land and we will close the other chapters.’
Why do you think this temple is so important for Hindus?
Hindus worship Ram like Muslims pray to Allah.
