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US Professors in Dubai to promote their book, The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy
Invited by the Dubai School of Government, Professors Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer, of Harvard University and the University of Chicago respectively, came to Dubai to promote and speak about their book The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy which has raised controversy in their country for breaking the taboo of speaking about the influence of the pro-Israel lobby in America.
- By Abbas Al Lawati, Staff Reporter
- Published: 00:04 June 19, 2008
- Stephen Walt (left) and John Mearsheimer, co-authors of The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy at Dubai Press Club as part of their regional tour to promote their book.
- Image Credit: Supplied Picture
Invited by the Dubai School of Government, Professors Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer, of Harvard University and the University of Chicago respectively, came to Dubai to promote and speak about their book The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy which has raised controversy in their country for breaking the taboo of speaking about the influence of the pro-Israel lobby in America.
Gulf News reporter Abbas Al Lawati interviewed the authors at the Dubai Press Club where they were attending a discussion group about their book. Below are excerpts from the interview:
Gulf News: What do you make of recent moves made by Arab governments that suggest a realization among them that you can't get through to Washington without courting the Israeli lobby?
Mearsheimer: It is hardly surprising that states in the Arab and Islamic world are talking to the lobby and trying to have good relations with it. They surely understand that the lobby has a profound influence on US Middle East policy and therefore affects their relations with Washington.
Walt: I think another example of this would be the fact that the United States and [an Arab government] have been negotiating a new weapons package. [The US hasn't signed] a major weapons deal with [the country] in many years. And last year when it was announced in the press it was clear that this congressional approval for the weapons package would be linked to a new ten-year $30 billion deal with Israel. It was clear that groups like AIPAC [American Israel Public Affairs Committee] were intimately involved in putting that together. They would not fight the package as long as they got the other side [of the deal] for Israel. And I am sure, although I haven't seen direct evidence, that the [Arab] government or its representatives in Washington had talked to people in the Israel lobby. This was all prearranged because those are the political realities in Washington.
Gulf News: How could contacts with the Israel lobby affect Arab-Israeli relations and Arab-American relations?
Walt: Contacts between the Arab world and the lobby are a good thing. I believe the vast majority of the Arab and Islamic world accepts Israel's existence, understands that it is here to stay and would like to have a reasonable relationship with the Jewish state...
The more there are contacts between Arab governments and groups in the lobby, the more people in the lobby will come to understand that the image that many people still have that this giant Arab world that seeks to destroy Israel is long out of date.
Contacts are good if they lead the lobby to move towards more moderate positions.
Mearsheimer: I think it would be all for the good if Arab states had positive relations with both the lobby and Israel, but its imperative that they not forget the Palestinians' plight and that they go to great lengths at the same time to put pressure on the lobby, on the US government and on Arab governments in places like Egypt and Jordan to do everything possible to facilitate a two-state solution.
‘Israel is going to end up as an apartheid state'
Gulf News: You concluded in your book that one of the ‘ways out' would be to establish a new Israel lobby. What do you make of J-Street, the recently established Jewish lobby that claims to be pro-Israel and pro-peace?
Mearsheimer: The appearance of J Street is evidence that increasing numbers of American Jews understand that Israel's policies in the occupied territories are going to have a disastrous outcome for Israel; that Israel is in effect is going to end up as an apartheid state.
Walt: Within the American Jewish community there have been a number of attempts over the years to create alternative groups to push for a solution, and none of them have actually really got going. But until relatively recently, those groups didn't have nearly as much clout in part because Israel still enjoyed very strong support and because awareness of where the occupation was leading Israel was not as clear in the American Jewish community.
There is also a generational issue. Younger people have grown up in a situation where Israel no longer seems weak and surrounded and threatened. Rather Israel seems powerful and secure. It is the one attacking its neighbours. Even for younger Americans who are strongly supportive of Israel have begun to realize that what Israel needs is peace and that is going to require a viable Palestinian state. Without a viable Palestinian state there is not going to be peace.
Gulf News: It has been said that the United States and the Israel lobby were standing between Israel and Syria in their efforts to reach a peace agreement. Do you think there are elements within Israel, and particularly in the Israeli left, who see the lobby as a nuisance?
Mearsheimer: We've [even] seen evidence that there are people on the Israeli right who are unhappy with the lobby sometimes. The lobby is very powerful, and when it throws its weight around, it not only throws its weight around in the American government but also in the Israeli government. The leaders of the lobby are not shy about letting Israeli leaders know what they think.
Walt: There are people in the left-of-centre in Israel who have been deeply worried by the influence that hard-line groups in the US have on both American policy and the occasional influence on the Israeli government. I've spoken to a number of people who have complained about the heads of major American Jewish organizations or other pro-Israel organizations trying to act like Israel's foreign minister or trying to tell the Israelis what to do which, not surprisingly, many Israelis resent.
Another component of the lobby in the US is a subset of Christian Evangelicals who are strongly in favour of Greater Israel for theological reasons. Many Israelis are at best ambivalent if not openly suspicious of Christian Zionists who they suspect, with some cause, of being anti-Semitic in various ways and who they believe are encouraging policies that are disastrous for Israel.
Gulf News: What do you think of the emerging non-governmental divestment and boycott campaigns against Israel in North America and Europe?
Walt: The emergence of these movements, whether among academics in certain countries or mainline Protestant churches in the US, is a [dead] canary in a coal mine. It's a signal that tells you something about how Israel's actions over the last [few decades] have tarnished its legitimacy. What was once seen as an underdog state that many viewed with great sympathy is not seen with the same level of sympathy any longer, but rather as a bully.
That's where you're getting these movements. Whether I personally agree with them or not, if I were an Israeli or a supporter of Israel I would regard the emergence of these movements as a very telling warning sign that we're headed in the wrong direction
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