'Miles to go before I sleep'

With Taliban violence on the rise in Afghanistan and reports of government corruption marring his government's image, Afghan President Hamid Karzai finds himself embattled and on the defensive.

At the World Economic Forum in Davos, held in Switzerland recently, he spoke about the Taliban and Pakistan, his government's challenges and its ties with Iran.

Excerpts.

How are the Taliban affecting you in Afghanistan?

By trying to prevent progress, by trying to prevent reconstruction, by killing our people, by [preventing] our children in southern Afghanistan from going to school, by killing the community leaders, the religious leaders, intimidating cultural leaders.

How strong are they now?

They will not be strong without support.

From Pakistan?

I have just had a very good trip to Pakistan, so what I would say is that Pakistan, Afghanistan, the United States and the rest of the world must join hands to end this problem. They have to take [action]. They have to.

The last time I interviewed Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf, I thought he was very angry. It is really a crazy situation in Pakistan.

Yes, very much. I found him to be more cognisant of the problems of extremism and terrorism. That is a good sign and I hope [they] will continue in that direction.

Do you think Musharraf will do something about it — send forces into the problematic border areas?

We have to end extremism. We have to end support for extremism. Unless we do that, the picture is one of doom and gloom for Pakistan and, as a consequence, for Afghanistan.

When I interviewed former Pakistan prime minister Benazir Bhutto in December, she said to me: “I feel they are going to come knocking at my door one night.''

Unfortunately, her death, the way it happened, proves her point. That is the irony. That is the sad thing about her death. She predicted something and she was proved right in that prediction. So it must be [heeded]. We cannot use extremism as a tool for any purpose. It will hurt us eventually, as it has begun to hurt Pakistan.

The United States is sending 3,000 additional troops to Afghanistan. Will that help?

I am happy about that, yes. The American contribution to the war against terrorism is fundamental and strong.

Will it make a difference?

It will make a difference when the Americans are clear and straightforward about this fight.

What do you mean?

They mean what they say. They do what they say.

You think they don't now?

They do now. Straight means they do now. Straight means they really are fighting it.

Do you think they are the right type of troops? Should they be special operations troops?

That is a professional issue. It has to be addressed by the military. What we need is the right number, the right quality and the right-equipped troops.

But you have a problem with foreign forces — they have limits. The Germans, for example, won't go to the south — the Taliban stronghold.

That has to be settled within the countries of Nato. But we are happy for all the contributions the Nato members are making to Afghanistan. We don't get involved in the details of operations. That is the business of Nato.

Do you plan to have more Afghan troops in the future?

We are training them. So far, we have trained 57,000 troops. We hope that this training will grow to a larger number and to a higher quality.

We are satisfied so far with the training of our Afghan army and with the equipment that we have received from the United States.

We hope there will be more. We just got the first consignment of our air wing in the Afghan Ministry of Defence — that is, helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft. So that is something that we would like to push forward.

Are there other things that you are asking the US for?

We are asking the US to help us in training and equipping a proper army.

And do you feel that the US is being responsive to your requests?

Yes, quite.

People talk a lot about opium and opium eradication, and some people have stronger methods of eradicating opium.

Yes, aerial spray and all that.

Which I gather you are opposed to.

Very strongly, yes, very strongly. Opium is a problem for Afghanistan, opium is a problem for the region and opium is a problem for the international community.

It affects lives all around the world. It is wrong. From every perspective and for all of us. Therefore, we have to get rid of this menace [at least] in Afghanistan.

What is the strategy?

The overall strategy is to try to get rid of poppies by improving the overall Afghan economy, by bringing better prosperity to the Afghan people, by eradicating poppies and replacing it with other alternatives.

But how to bring about [this change] is something that we all have to agree about. In short, opium came to Afghanistan because of the desperation of the people of Afghanistan.

Thirty years ago, when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, when we began to fight them, no Afghan family was sure whether they were going to be in their own house the next day, whether they were going to be in their country the next day — whether they were going to be alive the next day.

So for them, the easiest way was to have a cash crop. And opium was promoted from outside the Afghan borders. The mafia came in and told the people that it was a cash crop: “Grow it, and we'll pay you.''

I know people — men — who have destroyed their pomegranate orchards to replace them with poppies. Now no family would do that — ever — unless they are absolutely in limbo about the future.

And I know people, families, who have destroyed their vineyards in order to replace them with poppies because they were not sure of their tomorrow.

The more Afghanistan is sure of its tomorrow, the more the people will have hope for the future and the prosperity and stability of the country, and the higher will be our achievement in eradicating poppies, as has already been demonstrated in parts of the country.

But don't people need a substitute?

A stable and prosperous society is the substitute.

But how do you get there?

By what we are already doing. Fighting terrorism, following the rule of the law, improving governance and having a better economy. Whatever it takes to create a society that is governed by the rule of the law and is at peace.

How do you think you are doing with that ambition?

Well, we have taken magnificently strong steps. We have children going to school, we have our highways being rebuilt, we have our health services improving, we have our economy improving — we have everything right.

The only thing that we have to get right is an effective fight against terrorism. With that achievement, when it comes, Afghanistan will move much faster in the direction of a proper economy, away from a criminal economy, into a legitimate livelihood.

When you spoke to President Musharraf, did you ask him what he was going to do about the terrorist bases in Pakistan?

We see eye to eye on this question more than before.

Why is that?

Because of the blow we have received.

The death of Bhutto?

Because of her death, because of the bomb blasts, because of the suicide bombs killing people in mosques. It is unbelievable. It is impossible for us to ignore it any more. How can we deny it?

So the president agreed with you that it is impossible?

To deny? Oh, he agrees that there is a problem and that we have to fix it.

There are a lot of complaints about corruption in Afghanistan.

There is, yes.

What can you do to combat corruption, even in official circles?

Corruption is in official circles. Corruption is in governments or industries.

Can you fire people? What can you do?

We do fire people. We do a lot of those things but that is not the only answer to corruption.

You see, corruption is the consequence of the weakness of the overall Afghan system, the arrival of a lot of money, NGOs and international partners.

We cannot correct corruption by acting against corruption in a criminal way only. We have to improve standards in Afghanistan by having a better, more properly equipped administration, better human capital, better human resources and better skills.

[We also need] better police, better law enforcement and more relevant laws.

In other words, the society has to grow — all aspects of it — from the present base, which is weak, to a stronger base into the future. Then we will be able to successfully battle corruption .

How much influence does Iran have in your country right now?

We have had a particularly good relationship with Iran the past six years. It is a relationship that I hope will continue. We have opened our doors to them. They have been helping us in Afghanistan.

The United States very wisely understood that is the country is our neighbour and encouraged the relationship.

I hope Iran will also understand that the US is an ally of ours and that we value that alliance. So that is the foundation of our relations with them and I hope that it will continue as it is.

So in other words, you don't agree with President Bush's assessment of Iran.

On which question?

He called it part of the “axis of evil''. And there has been a lot of discussion about a nuclear programme.

We don't like a nuclear region, of course. Nobody wants nuclear weapons. Who wants to have weapons of destruction around their homes? Nobody.

But the US has been very understanding and supportive about Afghanistan's relationship with Iran.

Are you going to run for another term in 2009?

Well, I have things to accomplish. Who was it who wrote — Robert Frost? — “The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but I have promises to keep, and miles to go before I sleep. And miles to go before I sleep.''