Beirut: Lebanon’s politics are so fractured that its prime minister, in the absence of a president, is also the country’s top executive. That’s because the nation’s divided parliament, which picks the head of state, hasn’t been able to agree on a candidate in more than a year. In an interview, Prime Minister Tammam Salam explained the deadlock, discussed refugees from Syria (who now make up one-quarter of the population) and grappled with Beirut’s new phenomenon, a frustrated youth movement that wants to scrap the entire system. Edited excerpts follow:
Q: You can’t blame the protesters for their indignation over the lack of garbage collection and the inability of the government to elect a president. Indeed, you are the only official that exists here. What do you think of the protest group known as You Stink?
A: I can’t blame them at all. I respect their anger, because it is emanating from a reality: the weakness in almost everything as a result of the stalemate the country is going through - the incapacity of electing a new president for the past year and four months, the paralysis of legitimate institutions like the parliament, and the paralysis also seeping through to the Council of Ministers.
With that kind of political climate, it is certainly very difficult for a coalition government headed by a neutral like myself to get things done. We have political factions who are using this situation to outbid each other. They are trying to claim they are behind this anger at the failure by the authorities.
Q: That is not true, is it?
A: Of course not. The only people responsible for this are the political factions themselves.
Q: Some people say you are the only “clean” politician.
A: I am a neutral and was chosen as such when they arrived at an agreement on a person to look after this government. It took me 11 months to form the government. They spent those 11 months bickering and fighting among each other. I myself don’t have any political party to look after or projects in the country to protect, and this allows me to be very transparent and candid.
Q: The protesters do not seem interested in sects.
A: I wish all the country would go there and be secular in its politics. I personally am in support of that.
Q: They say they mainly care about having better garbage collection, better transportation, better health care.
A: The political factions label [the protesters] as being influenced and being deployed by the West.
Q: That’s not true, right?
A: In their leanings, there is some liberalism that is imported from the West. And from the onset of their movement, they went a bit too far by asking for the resignation of all the members of parliament, all the ministers. What’s the alternative? They should have targeted the real senior political factions and their leaders - that’s where the big problem is.
Q: Are you referring to the head of the Free Patriotic Movement, Michel Aoun, and Hezbollah?
A: All of them. The March 14th and March 8th alliances - they are the two major political groups in the country.
Q: Some of the protesters argue that these two groups are the same.
A: To them, yes. They are all part of this system, all part of the corruption, all part of this aging and weakened system.
Q: Do you think the youth movement will have a big effect?
A: I believe the political factions still carry most of the people with them. Those youngsters were able to gather something like 15 or 20,000 protesters in the streets in their biggest rally. Any major political faction could gather 50,000 people anytime they call their partisans to come out.
Q: Gen. Aoun wants to be president. He says there will be no president unless it is him. Hezbollah supports his demand. On the other side, you have the March 14th Alliance, supported by the Saudis. Hezbollah is supported by the Iranians. Can you get a president without help from the outside powers?
A: We have had a success story for the past year and a half in the prime minister, who happens to be a neutral person. Why not now go for a neutral president of the republic? Since our independence in 1943, we have elected 12 presidents of the republic. Eleven have either been suggested or produced by external powers.
Q: Do you mean Saudi Arabia and Iran?
A: That means internationally - America and Russia and the regional powers. Now the main players regionally are Saudi Arabia and Iran. To broker a deal, I believe it will start with the Americans and the Russians. They need to broker a deal between themselves, starting with the Syrian war. Solving the problem in Lebanon requires much less effort. It only requires the international big powers and the regional ones to get together and say, “Yes, we will support this guy as a president,” and things will start moving.
Q: You think this can happen soon?
A: It has to happen soon. Let me be very candid: We are heading toward a breakdown. The Lebanese political factions are incapable of electing a president by themselves.
Q: Did you tell Secretary of State John Kerry that when he called you recently?
A: Yes, we discussed it. Leaders from the outside world would come and ask me, “What do you think should be done in Syria?” I said: “You’re asking me what should be done in Syria? I should be asking you.” Unfortunately, the tension there is still building up. We had thought that some kind of understanding was starting to take place between the United States and Russia. But in the past two weeks we hear the Russians are asserting their position in Syria and sending arms there.
While the nuclear negotiations were going on between the US and Iran, officials said, “We don’t have time for other things.” Now they have concluded the deal, and they have time to handle other problems in the region. The major problem is the extremism and terrorism that is thriving and gaining ground all the time. A good start would be to try to conclude a two-state solution between the Israelis and Palestinians.
Q: How would that help? If you dropped Israel into the ocean tomorrow, wouldn’t there be another excuse for extremism?
A: The extremists are using that excuse all the time. What’s wrong with defusing this tension by establishing peace?
Q: But would it really defuse the tension? If you want to blow yourself up and suddenly there is a two-state solution, will you change your mind?
A: No, but you would be supporting moderates and helping them gain ground in the face of extremists and terrorists.
Q: How do you encourage moderation when people are cutting other people’s heads off?
A: It is a wake-up call for the world, this type of extremism, but it is not a mainstay. Communities cannot live in the shadows of such practices.
Q: Can Syrian President Bashar Al Assad hold Damascus or not?
A: To broker a deal there backed by the big powers is the only way to contain this situation. When I met with President Obama last fall, I said: “Mr. President, I know that you are not able to get out of this no-boots-on-the-ground policy, but frankly, to eradicate extremism and terrorism in our region, you need some boots on the ground. You cannot do it solely by air.” He said, “Whose boots?” I said, “You have a coalition set up now for this situation.”
Q: Is Hezbollah a problem for you?
A: They consider themselves a big power now. The Iranians labeled them as such. And they have a big presence and are quite active.
Q: You made a reference to Lebanon breaking down. Is it because of the influx of Syrian refugees?
A: No. The influx of Syrian refugees has a negative economic effect. It puts a burden on the country. We are not receiving enough financial aid to handle them. The 1.5 million refugees are a burden because they share our electricity, our water, our schools, our roads, our commerce, our jobs - and yes, the Lebanese are tired of this. They have been very hospitable. They have acted very well. But the [real] breakdown in Lebanon will take place because of the inability to solve the problems of the country, like the garbage issue and others.
Q: Who runs the electricity?
A: Right now it is the 8th of March running the electricity. We have an issue with the oil and gas in the sea. We cannot reach an agreement between the political factions to adopt a policy to help us explore oil and gas in our economic zone.
Q: Can’t you do something as prime minister?
A; I need a consensual decision from a parliament.
Q: What is the worst problem on your plate?
A: Electing a new president. Constitutionally there is nobody to hold consultations to nominate another prime minister [besides me]. It is the responsibility of the head of our government, according to the constitution. So a nightmare would be if I myself resigned. Some say: “Why don’t you? If you resign, they have to elect a president.” But others say, “In Lebanon, whenever you face the wall, the wall moves.”
