Opinion | Columnists
Iraqis 'still love me'
Saddam stated he had served the Iraqi people for a very long time. He considered his greatest accomplishments to be the social programmes he had introduced for Iraqis and improvements in major sectors of the economy.
- By George L. Piro
- Published: 23:29 July 11, 2009
- Image Credit: AP
- In his first public appearence since he was re-elected as president in a referendum, Saddam Hussain waves to supporters in Baghdad on October 18, 1995. The elections saw Iraqis endorse Saddam as president for another seven-year term with a 99.96 per cent vote.
Shortly after his arrest in December 2003, former Iraqi president Saddam Hussain was interrogated by the FBI.
The secret interrogation documents, which were made public only recently by the National Security Archive, an independent non-governmental research institute in the US, shed light on the state of mind of Saddam, executed in December 2006.
In this series, Gulf News will run the transcripts of the 20 formal interrogation sessions and 5 'causal conversations' he had with a senior FBI agent.
In the first session, Saddam outlines his "contributions" to Iraq and says the Iraqi people "will always love" him.
Session 1
February 7, 2004
Baghdad Operations Centre
Interview conducted by George L. Piro
Saddam Hussain (High Value Detainee 01) was interviewed on February 7, 2004 at a military detention facility at Baghdad International Airport (BIAP), Baghdad, Iraq. Saddam provided the following information:
Saddam stated he had served the Iraqi people for a very long time. He considered his greatest accomplishments to be the social programmes he had introduced for Iraqis and improvements in major sectors of the economy including enhancements to education, the healthcare system, industry, agriculture, and other areas that generally enhanced the way of life for Iraqis.
In 1968, Iraqi people "barely had anything", he said. Food was scarce, both in rural villages as well as in cities. Farmland was neglected and agricultural methods were primitive. The Iraqi economy depended entirely on oil production, with most of the oil being exported from Iraq by foreign companies without much government control. As Iraq manufactured very few products, most goods had to be imported.
The healthcare system was "primitive" and the mortality rate was very high, particularly among the poor. The infant mortality rate was scary, estimated at 40-50 per cent, with many deaths occurring during pregnancy or delivery. The literacy rate was around 27 per cent, with those classified as "literate" often not capable of true proficiency in their professed skill. Roads were almost non-existent in rural areas and "very bad" in the cities. Limited educational opportunities existed at the university level, even in Baghdad. Many cities had no college whatsoever. Generally, only wealthy individuals could afford to send their children to a university.
Saddam brought about a visible improvement in all of the areas previously discussed and asserted that it was his greatest accomplishment and "service" to the Iraqi people.
In response to a question regarding his mistakes, he said all humans make mistakes, and only God is free of error.
He noted that the interviewer was "smart" and it appeared he had read reports from previous interviews. "Perhaps, a conversation between two such educated people will not be useful or successful," he quipped. If one says he is perfect, he would be saying he is like God, he said.
Saddam conceded that not all of his efforts were viewed as successful in some people's eyes. He compared this evaluation of himself by others and the existence of differing viewpoints to his own views about the American system of government, of which he is "not convinced". He pointed out that approximately 30 million people live in poverty in America, but US residents do not consider this a "crime". He said he would never be ready to accept the same for Iraq.
When prompted by the interviewer a second time regarding his own mistakes, he asked, "Do you think I would tell my enemy if I made a mistake?" Saddam clarified that he did not consider the interviewer an enemy, nor the American people, but the American system of government.
He stated that what people said or thought about him in the present was irrelevant. What was important, he said, was what people would think in the future, 500 or 1,000 years on. The most important thing, however, is what God thinks, he said. If God believes something, He will convince the people to believe. If God does not agree, it does not matter what the people think.
Saddam added that a "traitor" provided information which led to his capture. As a "guest" at the location and as an Iraqi, he should not have been given up to US forces. The grandchildren of this "traitor" will hold him accountable and tell this to future generations. He said he would be known in the future for fairness and as having "faced oppression". Ultimately, what the Iraqis think will be up to them but he said Iraqis would not compare leaders of the pre-Islamic era to the Islamic era.
He said Iraqi citizens were empowered to exercise their right to self-govern as guaranteed by the interim constitution in 1990. This was possible because the people had a leader and a government to lead them.
Saddam voiced his view that Iraq "will not die". Iraq remained a great nation, as it had been at various points throughout history, he said. Nations generally "go to the top" only once; Iraq, however, had reached the zenith several times, before and after Islam. Iraq is the only nation like this in the history of the world and it was a "gift" given to the Iraqi people by God, he said. When Iraqi people fall, they rise again, he said asserting his belief that the Iraqi people "will take matters into their own hands", rule themselves, and, with God, decide what is right.
He expressed the hope that Iraq would advance in all areas, financial, religious, etc. He added that, as a humanitarian, he hoped the same would also come true for the American people. He quoted a passage from the book Zabibah and the King, commonly attributed as his writing, where the deputies shout, "Long live Zabibah. Long live the people. Long live the army." The deputies did not, however, shout "Long live the king", he pointed out.
Saddam was asked whether the Iraqi people would forget him or fail to raise their voice for him. His answer was no. "It's in God's hands," he said.
He emphasised that the king is not the main subject of the book, but the people. God comes first, then the people, he said. Jesus Christ was considered "from the people" as Mary was of the people and Christ lived among the people, he said. Being faithful is a cherished thing in life, but being a traitor is the worst thing, he said. "God wanted to tell us don't be surprised when people are traitors to you." Saddam ended this portion of the discussion by saying "a prisoner can not do anything for the people." He said though that he still needed to have faith in God and repeated "It's in God's hands."
Turning to politics, he stated that the National Progressive Front, a political party, had been known as the National Front from 1970-1974. The National Front consisted of the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP), the Communist Party, and the Ba'ath Party. Political parties express differences in Iraq as occurs in other countries and some groups, including the Kurds, did not believe in socialism along the same ideological lines as the Ba'ath, he observed. In 1991, the National Progressive Front never took firm shape because of a failure to pass the constitution which was due to the First Gulf War.
Saddam considered any individual who was faithful to Iraq, and to the people, to be a part of the Ba'ath. The Ba'ath takes responsibility for successes and mistakes, he said. In 1989, and, again in 2002, he said he had attempted, unsuccessfully, to convince his "colleagues" of the need for multiple political parties in Iraq. In his opinion, one party was not good for Iraq. "Life does not accept only one idea. It accepts only one God," he said. He however held to his view that a political system similar to America's, with multiple parties, would cause "too much commotion" for the Iraqi people and they would have to be forced to accept it. Saddam said, "I wish there were parties other than the Ba'ath." Differences, from family through the people to the government, are good. He ended this portion of the discussion by stating, "Currently, the only political parties existing in Iraq are the ones with the weapons."
He quoted another passage from Zabibah and the King which states, "I'm a great leader. You must obey me. Not only that, you must love me."
He was then asked whether a leader can achieve greatness through his work for his people or demand greatness through fear. He answered that fear would not make a ruler or be enough to make the people love a ruler. Love comes through communication. The "author" of this book is comparing this king to past kings, he said. He did not want to emphasise or advocate the idea of the monarchy to the people as the "author" does not approve of this form of government. Thus, the king died and Zabibah lived, as a symbol of the people.
Saddam believed people would come to love him more after his passing. People were resisting the occupation of Iraq as they had done before, under the "banners" of Saddam, he said. The difference, however, he said, was that he was not in power but in prison.
He said people would only love someone for what they had done. During his presidency and before that time, he accomplished much for Iraq - he had concluded a peace agreement with Barzani (the Kurds) in the north in 1970, he nationalised the Iraqi oil industry in 1972, he supported the 1973 war against Israel, Iraq had survived eight years of war with Iran from 1980-1988 and the First Gulf War shortly thereafter. Even then, Iraq lived through 13-14 years of a boycott. Saddam sought to know whether the boycott was still in place, and was told it was over.
Despite all the hardships and issues endured by Iraq, 100 per cent of the people voted for him in the last elections, he claimed. In his opinion, it reflected the fact that the Iraqis still supported their leader.
- Source: www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv - FBI Special Agent George Piro was the leader of the team responsible for Saddam's interrogation. In 2004, Agent Piro spent nearly seven months leading the interrogation.
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