IN THIS WEEK'S ISSUE
A vision for rule with reforms
Prince Talal of Saudi Arabia believes change is key to the nation's development
- By Abeer Allam and Andrew England, Financial Times
- Published: 23:01 June 25, 2009
Prince Talal Bin Abdul Aziz, a half-brother of King Abdullah, gave a rare interview at his office in Riyadh in April.
Prince Talal has no role in official decision-making but is one of the few royals to speak openly about the need for change in Saudi Arabia. Excerpts:
What do you think of the appointment of Prince Nayef as a second deputy prime minister? How does the appointment impact the future of Saudi Arabia?
The appointment of Prince Nayef or any other individual is not the issue. We are protesting against the principle, not the person.
This is more of an administrative, ministerial position, so we do not agree on the impression that he will automatically become crown prince because of the Biaa system (Allegiance Council) established by King Abdullah, something that we all approved and abide by.
The council nominates and elects the crown prince. Bypassing the allegiance system would mean we do not respect our own rules.
For the past seven years I have been calling for the preparation of the next generation of leaders from among the most competent of our sons through the council.
I think when the council chooses a crown prince, a deputy crown prince from the younger generation should be chosen simultaneously so that we do not face a political vacuum as in Kuwait.
We can draw from historical precedent. King Faisal bypassed Prince Mohammad, the most senior member of the family, and chose Khalid as crown prince after consulting all his brothers.
Prince Mohammad did not want to be king though it was his legitimate right. King Faisal asked all of us to vote. This was a good approach which earned the approval of all his brothers.
Does this mean that choosing Prince Nayef as a second deputy prime minister won't necessarily mean he will become crown prince?
We have the Allegiance Council system through which a crown prince is nominated and appointed.
In our political system, it is up to the king to decide. He has the right to abolish or amend the system.
If he wants to do that, he may propose the changes to his brothers and we will acknowledge his rights. But as long as there is a system in place, we have to respect it.
What could be the consequences of violating the Biaa system?
We hope there won't be any consequences. We are advocates of dialogue and understanding.
We strongly support King Abdullah because he works for the best interests of our country.
After the appointment, was there any kind of discussion in the family?
No.
Any dialogue with you?
Yes. But I won't speak about it.
We understand that decisions are made through consensus in Saudi Arabia's system. So was the appointment done without consensus?
There is no such thing as unanimity or global consensus. But there is dialogue and accord.
For example, what we have in Lebanon democracy is a kind of consensus democracy. We are a family here; we better have a dialogue that leads to consensus.
Up to 70 per cent of Saudi Arabia's population is under 30 and the country is facing problems such as unemployment and a shrinking middle class. Do you think Saudi Arabia is heading in the right direction economically, socially and politically?
Any country seeking the right path towards balanced development must embrace dialogue among different segments of the society.
We demand, for example, that the Shura Council be empowered.
While there is a difference between being head of state and being head of government, here the family serves as both the government and head of state, which they own and rule.
If you ask me how to encourage the young generation from the family or the people of the country to become more proactive, I would say by involving them in decision-making.
Elections are out of the question for the time being.
So we have to empower the Shura Council. First a dialogue should be initiated within the royal family and then the dialogue should expand to include the entire society through the Shura Council.
Then, eventually, we will hold elections. There is no way around it.
When do you think we will see elections?
Ask our king about that.
What is the right time for elections?
It is not about election per se but about involving our young people in decision-making, which will one day reflect on us. My opinion alone is not enough.
Young people see elections in Arab countries, Gulf countries and even Bangladesh and Bolivia. And they wonder why we lack the same thing.
Why do you speak up now?
The problem is that the situation at the beginning of the 21st century is different from that of the last century, especially after 9/11.
We cannot use the same tools we used a century ago to rule the country today.
For example, we have Iran next door, a country with political ambitions and foreign policies that concern us. Iran now enjoys influence in most Arab countries.
Political and social realities are also different today and the global economic situation has shaken and affected people here.
These are the three major factors that took place in the 21st century. All three factors warrant change. I cannot say exactly what kind of change but we have to have a dialogue with the people.
How would you do that?
We have to have advisers who know what is going on in their countries and the entire world.
King Abdul Aziz had nine advisers from various Arab countries, besides advisers from Saudi Arabia.
This region is roiling with turmoil and radicalism and the aspirations of a young population. I am afraid we are not prepared for that.
We cannot use the same tools we have been using to rule the country for a century.
This is how this vast country was established despite the limited resources we had back then.
We have to follow his lead, taking into consideration the present circumstances.
You spoke about the 21st century and how the international environment has changed.
Do you think the Saudi government or society understands the challenges?
Do you think the government is ready to make the necessary changes to become a modern country? Some might argue the people are not ready.
Today, with technological development, the internet and ease of travel, even a Bedouin or a simple peasant is capable of understanding the issues that confront the kingdom.
Are we, as people of Saudi Arabia, less sophisticated than the rest of the Gulf, for example? I do not think so. We should not say the people are incapable. They do realise what is going on.
But it is often said the society is not ready for change.
Unfortunately, hypocrites claim our society is unprepared for change and blame the religious institutions.
It harms us and keeps us lagging behind.
Certain people are pleased to hear that. We have to stop using them as an excuse. King Abdullah is the ruler. If he wills it, then it will be done.
Does the government work for change?
Throughout Saudi Arabia's history, decisions have been left in the hands of the king. He is the one who leads the government and directs its policies.
The ministers are bureaucrats who work according to his directions. Serving our people is the top priority for our king.
Do you mean the people are ready for change but the political system is not?
Changes must be at a pace acceptable to the people and in accordance with our traditions.
There should not be a chasm between the ruler's desires for change and the people's acceptance. I believe that the leadership under King Abdullah takes these issues into consideration.
Are you personally advocating change?
It is not about what I want. The questions are: Is change in the best interests of my country and does it happen in accordance with our national principles and traditions?
Above all, will it adhere to our religion? Are we able to balance openness with the world without sacrificing one bit of our heritage and tradition?
Are you the only one in the family who demands change?
If I said yes, then I am wrong. And I cannot say no. Ask them.
Do the senior members of the family meet? What do they say?
We do meet but I am not going to talk about it. These are family affairs.
What is at stake if the system did not change itself?
We have great expectations from King Abdullah. We believe in him.
But what is at stake for the Saudi society?
To answer your question we have to go back to history and what it says. History repeats itself. Predicting what will happen is difficult for me.
But I know King Abdullah has the best intentions.
I support him fully because he has always mediated and reconciled divisions. We hope he will continue his reforms.
But are intentions good enough?
Yes, most of the time good intentions are sufficient. If the ruler has bad intentions, then he is hopeless.
But I have known the man (King Abdullah) since the time of my father, not just since he became king.
He unites people, pushes dialogue and listens to others. He is the one putting steam into the process of reform.
Is it true that the king wants to push change but some others in the family oppose it?
I cannot comment on that.
We hear that King Abdullah advocates change but there is resistance from inside the family and the religious establishment.
The king is the decision maker. Any king following Abdul Aziz may rule as he pleases. If there are objections or obstacles as you say, then he is the one who can remove the impediments. His word is final.
If he wills it, it will be done. The man has the intention for reform. He has conducted some major reforms recently. Did anyone object or stop him?
What is the role of the religious establishment?
It has a big role in helping the royal family and it is often said the family takes its opinion into consideration?
According to history, King Abdul Aziz, who possessed great knowledge of Sharia and Fiqh, used to consult with those from the religious establishment in matters where there was no clear guidance or injunction within Sharia texts.
If they disagreed with him, he would say he respected their view but would not abide by it.
If they resisted, he would say this is the monarchy we created with our own blood and the blood of our men, and we will do what is best for it.
This country is ruled under Sharia already, we cannot just blame the religious establishment for our shortcomings. Not all of them are the same. It is about making decisions.
A university was opened by a decision, girls' schools were opened by a decision and television was established by a royal decision, even though many from the clergy opposed all these decisions.
The same applies to other reforms that King Abdullah initiated, such as elections at chambers of commerce, the appointment of women in the government and all sorts of reforms he launched.
Whatever is said about the religious establishment, its ability to block reform is exaggerated.
What is your opinion about the reform process since 2005? Do you believe King Abdullah is a reformist?
Frankly again, yes. I know the man wants reform. But what kind of reform or whether there is a comprehensive plan, I am not sure I can speak on his behalf. Maybe his view on reform differs from mine. We need a dialogue to know.
You see a dialogue inside the Shura, the ruling family and the people as necessary. How might this take form?
That is correct. King Abdullah initiated dialogue between the sects, something I consider a major step, which we hope will be followed by others and will enable the concept to mature and have a tangible impact on the process of reform.
You have said you are concerned about roiling conflicts. How do these affect Saudi Arabia?
I am concerned about the whole region. It is roiling with turmoil and radicalism and the aspirations of a young population.
I am afraid we are not prepared for that. We cannot use the same tools we have been using to rule the country for a century.
What are your main concerns about the future?
Water scarcity, the ambitions of the young generation and energy alternatives.
Also, I am concerned about the clash between the old and new, the new framework after 9/11, Iran's ambitions, and the world economic situation.
If these issues are handled without proper dialogue, the consequences will not be good.
Why are you the only person in the royal family who is concerned or speaks out?
Did you meet all of them to judge them?
Of course not. But you are most concerned?
I am concerned, I care.
Do you see a bright future for the kingdom?
I am optimistic, despite my reservations.
Will you be less optimistic if the situation does not change?
Well, I am as human as any other. I get frustrated.
Do you think Saudi Arabia has benefited from the recent oil boom more than it did in the 1970s?
Saudi Arabia is the best oil country and has made the best use of its oil resources.
Even during the 1970s?
Here is a good answer: We have three major issues. First: oil. We will run out of oil one day and there has to be an alternative. What is the alternative?
Establishing a sovereign wealth fund such as that in the UAE, Kuwait, Qatar or Norway. We have to have an alternative for oil income and we do not have that yet.
The second critical issue is water. We have to take strict measures to protect what is left of our fossil water. Nothing will replace that fossil water. Desalination is insufficient.
The third is education.
Strict measures to reform education are needed, rather than placating those who oppose changes in the curriculum. We need to train our young people and employ them.
I do not understand, for example, why out of 80,000 doctors we have in the kingdom, only 10,000 of them are from Saudi Arabia.
How should Saudi Arabia protect its resources?
We have the best potable water in the north, which does not need desalination.
But a farmer with 600,000 sheep grows his own alfalfa, wasting the water on feed. Why doesn't he import feed? We import everything from rice to flour.
We cannot afford it. He is depleting our water resources.
The sheep use our water inefficiently, even though we have no rivers and rain is scarce. We to have to engage our people in decision-making through dialogue. What kind of model do we want?
The Jordanian, Bahraini or the Kuwaiti system?
The questions of “how'' are discussed through dialogue.
Three or four years ago, before he was king, Prince Abdullah, speaking on behalf of King Fahd, spoke of involving people in the decisions that will impact them. We have to do this.
Could that be done through an elected Shura Council?
For now, we should empower the council so that the king and the people see for themselves how important it can be. Maybe elections are the next step after that.
The Shura should have the right to supervise the budget, issue legislation and question the government.
The king might set limits on their authority but in principle we have to do it. That will clarify the benefits of elections to both the ruler and his subjects.
I read that the British crown prince meets with his people, meets workers or butchers or visits factories.
He does that at a time when the ruling family there does not actually govern. We should do it ourselves since we rule and govern.
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